Before & After

[lithman34 49]

This was an image I edited with our small group last week, after they had pointed out faults in the image. 

My theme was you do whatever it takes to put things right. After cropping I set about removing the couple behind the horses head and repairing the tree and the base.I suggested that the half face behind the saddle was removed and a general tidy up. I then suggested that the 2 ladies on the right looking out of the image was not ideal, which was agreed. I then showed how to make a selection, put it onto a new layer, clean up the area, return the 2 ladies and flip them, slightly enlarge them to hide any signs of work, and give a little clean up. A couple of members thought that this was going too far and did the image warrant that amount of work.

I suggested that if it improved the image, then yes any work done was justified.    How do other members think,  Right or wrong.!!

 

[Tinion 45 50]

Before we comment it would be good to see the image Lithman.

Ed: Sorry Tinion. Ken has technical troubles posting images for reasons we are not sure of, so he posted the text, I added the pictures, but when your awake, I'm asleep 

[Tinion 45 50]

I'm awake now... just. 

Ok so we have two different views of the scene so I am not sure if Ken used parts of the first image to help adjust the second or if the second was manipulated as is by referring to the first. Generally I agree with the changes but could not see where the last stage of flipping the ladies was done. With editing as we know we have to be careful of the tell tale signs of manipulation so that a viewer could not distinguish any editing faults or cloning. For me the tree has the obvious cloning errors due to pattern repeating and Palm trees grow usually with the same width of trunk all the way up and not such a wide base. I stand to be corrected if the tree was that wide at the base in reality. It is a good idea to get rid of the crowds walking out of the picture by framing and people looking at the subject usually produces a better pictorial scene than the first image. For me also the colours seem a little too saturated especially when comparing the two images and some red is good in a scene but too much can be distracting to the viewers eye. If you ask viewers to honestly describe what they see as quickly as possible usually they can point out where their eye is going to so descriptions away from the subject can possibly highlight areas of needing adjustment. If the group think things are a step too far then further examples are the only way to prove whether it was worth it and eventually they would find a balance. It could be argued that removing the horse excrement might be worth doing but repairing the shadow might be harder work, though creating a new shadow could be a good exercise. As the horse and rider is in such a good pose I would be tempted to remove it altogether and place it in another scene or make it into some fine art work with a suitable uncluttered background like say a majestic building with an empty square in front with loads of empty space to place the horse and rider, not necessarily close to the building.

 

[Morturn 34]

I think as an exercise in learning Photoshop selections, cloning and general image manipulation it is a great way of learning.

In terms of have you improved the image, was the work done justified or is it right or wrong, that is a matter of opinion. And, you will get as many different opinions as people you ask, wrapped up in a lot of over thinking.

If its about learning image development, then plus 10 points. If it's about composition, then minus several million. But that how it works with photography, it’s not just one aspect, it’s a whole journey underpinned by an ability to experiment, take onboard new ideas, embracing the tools and technology that supports it.

[lithman34 49]

I think you have to bear in mind that this was an on the spot demonstration in response to a question. Often an image is put up then a discussion on how to improve, crop, change etc.

So there is nothing planned.

[Morturn 34]

So did you do this as a live demo?

[lithman34 49]

Yes

[lithman34 49]

These images along with the horse one' are taken at our local village Romeria. A festival where the local saint gets taken from the church placed on a decorated cart pulled by two decorated bullocks and taken on its anual day out. In our case it's the local river. A day of fun  for everyone, races for the kids, events for the horses, competitions, lots of booze, a huge dish of Paella for everyone cooked at the event. People then  stagger back to the village late in the evening put the saint back into the church, then the have a year to recover before the next one. This is done in every town and village throught Spain. Each one has it's own saint day.

[Barry 475]

Lithman34

The issue of you posting images is now resolved. It was caused because you have posted some rather large images and you reached a default limit. I have removed the limit, but really images should be no larger than 1920 pixels on the long side and saved as a jpg level 6-8

[Barry 475]

So, how does one become a Saint ?

[Morturn 34]

Dying is a good start

[lithman34 49]

I always knew you were a genius

 

 

 

 

 

[Tinion 45 50]

I thought you had to be born on All Saints Day, like me and be named after a French zone of Paris, like me.

Regards,

Saint Denis

[Barry 475]

I remember now, first you have to die, then someone comes up with some unbelievable story of how you performed miracles and you’re in.

well if I cut out a blonde model from a white background and paste her convincingly on a black background, would that count as a miracle and get me in I wonder. 

[joan mb 43]

I think you did an impressive job on your original image of horse & rider Lithman particularly as it seems it was an on the spot demonstration. The edited image is certainly an improvement on the original so was it worthwhile? Guess that's always the author's call.

Thank you for sharing a little of your local culture. Very interesting. Joan

[lithman34 49]

I tried putting the horse complete with shadow on different backgrounds, but they didn't seem to fit with a dancing horse, so I put him to bed in one of Barry's give away frames.

[Tinion 45 50]

I think it's about colour, but also could be about receding the background distractions.

Hope you don't mind me having a play but here are two I attempted in PS and Topaz Impression using Black and White Pastel 2 and adding a mask to colour pop, and JS Art 4 Abstract. Notice I removed the excrement first and built up the shadow using the clone stamp tool.

The abstract for me gives a real spanish feel.

[Tinion 45 50]

Sorry Lithman, I've been playing again.

So here is what I created using the example painting.  

[Barry 475]

Nicely done

[Tinion 45 50]

Thanks Barry, I still think it needs a bit more work to lose the harshness of the cut out and the bright sunshine look. 

[Barry 475]

It’s surprising how soft edges are in what appears to be a sharp photo isn’t it? 

[Tinion 45 50]

The answer to that question is how soft they need to be, to appear not over sharp, yet at the same time not under sharp. The drop shadow probably adds the impression of being 3D rather than a cut out and paste.

[Barry 475]

That why cutouts via a mask are safer, easier to adjust afterwards 

[lithman34 49]

Final thought.

We can all do cut outs and present them as something else, here are two of street artists. The boy just wants a photo in an 8-10 frame that he can hang on the wall in his local bar participating in the local Romeria to join all the other horsey pictures.

[Tinion 45 50]

Nothing wrong with printing them out as is and giving them to the boy. I would be using that as an opportunity to get the horse and rider in a more favourable setting to practise Photography. A win win situation he gets pictures of his horse you get better posed photographs. Plus next Saints Day he will looking out for you.